The city launched the StarCam - 24/7 webcam live from the top of Mill Mountain.
It's about time too.. and because they are about 10 years late doing this, they used 10 year old web code.
The entire page refreshes every 15 seconds. Hope your cache is strong enough to handle it.
However, with a bit of digging - I was able to find the site where it does not refresh the entire page, just the photo.
And it's every 5 seconds.
Here you go - the Real StarCam
Oh, and your welcome - City of Roanoke, for saving your servers the 15 second total refresh.
Showing posts with label Mill Mountain. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Mill Mountain. Show all posts
5/14/08
1/22/08
A dissenting viewpoint
This just in, from one of those rare people who actually use Mill Mountain.
"In case you haven't heard there is a group of people in Roanoke called Valley Forward. They have this idea of wanting to put a Restaurant atop Mill Mountain. The debate and argument has been going on quite a while now. The original plan has been scaled down a great deal from their original propasal.
I have been and continue to be in opposition to this development. Commercial development does not belong in a public park!!!! They claim that the structure will have minimal impact on the mountain, however they have not supported this with evidence other than claiming that they are building a LEED friendly building. The existance or idea of the structure in itself violates LEED recommendations that state land that is being used in a natural way should not be disturbed in order to build a structure.
There is no way to prove that construction traffic itself will not lead to pollution, road damage and disturb the natural habitats of so many animals. There has been no data published to detail the impact of soil erosion and damage from rain water run off from the addition of a building and two parking lots. There has been no evidence to support whether the proposal would be a success. In fact, Valley Forward has failed to answer the concerns posed by many citizens who are in opposition to the plan. They contunue to claim that based on a survey of a 500 people, that a majority of citizens favor this development. I find this funny as a large number of citizens do not know nor understand the scope of the project.
If you care about keeping Mill Mountain green, please consider attending a meeting of the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee at 4pm on Thursday January 24th at the Discovery Center. If you would like to speak on the issue, please note that you must sign up in advance. "
via Jen's Bike Blog
"In case you haven't heard there is a group of people in Roanoke called Valley Forward. They have this idea of wanting to put a Restaurant atop Mill Mountain. The debate and argument has been going on quite a while now. The original plan has been scaled down a great deal from their original propasal.
I have been and continue to be in opposition to this development. Commercial development does not belong in a public park!!!! They claim that the structure will have minimal impact on the mountain, however they have not supported this with evidence other than claiming that they are building a LEED friendly building. The existance or idea of the structure in itself violates LEED recommendations that state land that is being used in a natural way should not be disturbed in order to build a structure.
There is no way to prove that construction traffic itself will not lead to pollution, road damage and disturb the natural habitats of so many animals. There has been no data published to detail the impact of soil erosion and damage from rain water run off from the addition of a building and two parking lots. There has been no evidence to support whether the proposal would be a success. In fact, Valley Forward has failed to answer the concerns posed by many citizens who are in opposition to the plan. They contunue to claim that based on a survey of a 500 people, that a majority of citizens favor this development. I find this funny as a large number of citizens do not know nor understand the scope of the project.
If you care about keeping Mill Mountain green, please consider attending a meeting of the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee at 4pm on Thursday January 24th at the Discovery Center. If you would like to speak on the issue, please note that you must sign up in advance. "
via Jen's Bike Blog
1/17/08
This just in....
Hosted by "For the Future's Citizens for Rockledge"? Coffee and Treats by Mill Mountain Coffee?
And here I thought the snow had stopped. Apparently, the snowjob rolls on.
On the good side, I guess you can no longer say it's impossible to get people organized around here.
At least 2 of them think this is a good idea.
Check the forecast..... mmmm.. snow again. Ok. Let's see - support something that a very small minority want, that is dubiously bring brought forth while it's snowing. Umm.. think not - thanks though.
Oh - and the petition has stalled out at 459 signatures. Give them a hand, with some real reasons to build something on the mountain. OR voice your concerns, complain, hoot and holler. Whatever - it's a public petition. They will delete any postings that do not measure up to their standards.
But please, feel free to help them reach the goal of 1000 signatures on this loaded baked potato of a petition.
And go right ahead and go on down to support the "For the Future's Citizens for Rockledge."
(makes me want to do a facepalm just thinking about it. in the chatbox if'n you care)
1/6/08
A touch delayed
Ok, so I had to be in at 6 this morning, which meant I got to read all the headlines from today's paper - but had no time to respond to them.
Although if I know my readers, you know which articles I'm talking about.
#1: Softened Opposition
Straight out balderdash I say. You can always find people to say what you want them to say, but it's what you report that leaves the impression. Now I don't know if Mr. Kittredge has any real inside line or reason for pointing the story in the direction it took, unless is had something to do with the New York Times article from last week. But seriously now, the citizenry of Roanoke has given up, as usual, and accepted it.
I guess they think that once the Council decides it, it's a done deal. And the sad part is, because they act on that belief - it becomes a reality. Which leads us to article #2.
#2: Selling ideas on Market Building
So the Adams boys have teamed up on this story, straight from the desk of Darlene herself - on the age old question: What do we do with another municipal owned building that the city has a poor track record of maintaining?
I think it comes down to this folks, this is the election issue of the next dozen years. The wise, learned individuals down at the Municipal building (which by the way has more unmaintained issues than most realize), including the C.E.O. (self-ordained) of Roanoke have seen fit to decide NOT to maintain any publicly owned structure in the past decade. Most of which had not been maintained since the late 60's as it was.
Rather, they ordered study after study on what to do with these buildings. Studies on how to improve the areas around the buildings, without dealing with the buildings themselves. And now, they are selling off city property - YOUR property - because they no longer want to pretend to spend the money on upkeep.
Sure, they can all promise they do not want the Market Building sold. But Harris, for all his faults, said it best.
From the article: 'Mayor Nelson Harris said the city council must consider a number of alternatives. "One is the market building remaining completely in municipal hands and have it operated by the city," Harris said. "Another option would be some kind of public-private partnership."
In other words - we make no promises folks. We will do what we feel is best to do. That WE does not include YOU. If you wanted something to base your benchmark of a candidate this election cycle on, this is it.
And article #3: Rockledge won't make, or break, Mill Mountain.
I am actually agreeing with Dan Radmacher. I know, I'm just as shocked as you. But like I have said before, Valley Forward is backing the wrong horse on this one. While it is certainly nice that they raised $35,000 for the Greenways (where did the money go by the way?), I've said before - no restaurateur could ever give any sort of guarantee that a restaurant, or a pair of restaurants would succeed on Mill Mountain. As a matter of fact, it would probably be one of the biggest food-related gambles to hit Roanoke in a long time, short of allowing Spanky to operate another restaurant. Maybe now they will get the message - a restaurant on Mill Mountain, no matter how noble the cause - will not be the harbinger of a new era in Roanoke.
Just like the Art Museum and the Market Building, the Restaurant depends on the people - the very same people who have not been consulted, and are generally left out of the process.
I said before - this is a critical election for the City of Roanoke, and regardless of political party, if you cannot see that, you should probably move to the County.
Actually - I would recommend it. Us mouthy minority folks who are ruining it for everyone, well - we are just getting warmed up.
Although if I know my readers, you know which articles I'm talking about.
#1: Softened Opposition
Straight out balderdash I say. You can always find people to say what you want them to say, but it's what you report that leaves the impression. Now I don't know if Mr. Kittredge has any real inside line or reason for pointing the story in the direction it took, unless is had something to do with the New York Times article from last week. But seriously now, the citizenry of Roanoke has given up, as usual, and accepted it.
I guess they think that once the Council decides it, it's a done deal. And the sad part is, because they act on that belief - it becomes a reality. Which leads us to article #2.
#2: Selling ideas on Market Building
So the Adams boys have teamed up on this story, straight from the desk of Darlene herself - on the age old question: What do we do with another municipal owned building that the city has a poor track record of maintaining?
I think it comes down to this folks, this is the election issue of the next dozen years. The wise, learned individuals down at the Municipal building (which by the way has more unmaintained issues than most realize), including the C.E.O. (self-ordained) of Roanoke have seen fit to decide NOT to maintain any publicly owned structure in the past decade. Most of which had not been maintained since the late 60's as it was.
Rather, they ordered study after study on what to do with these buildings. Studies on how to improve the areas around the buildings, without dealing with the buildings themselves. And now, they are selling off city property - YOUR property - because they no longer want to pretend to spend the money on upkeep.
Sure, they can all promise they do not want the Market Building sold. But Harris, for all his faults, said it best.
From the article: 'Mayor Nelson Harris said the city council must consider a number of alternatives. "One is the market building remaining completely in municipal hands and have it operated by the city," Harris said. "Another option would be some kind of public-private partnership."
In other words - we make no promises folks. We will do what we feel is best to do. That WE does not include YOU. If you wanted something to base your benchmark of a candidate this election cycle on, this is it.
And article #3: Rockledge won't make, or break, Mill Mountain.
I am actually agreeing with Dan Radmacher. I know, I'm just as shocked as you. But like I have said before, Valley Forward is backing the wrong horse on this one. While it is certainly nice that they raised $35,000 for the Greenways (where did the money go by the way?), I've said before - no restaurateur could ever give any sort of guarantee that a restaurant, or a pair of restaurants would succeed on Mill Mountain. As a matter of fact, it would probably be one of the biggest food-related gambles to hit Roanoke in a long time, short of allowing Spanky to operate another restaurant. Maybe now they will get the message - a restaurant on Mill Mountain, no matter how noble the cause - will not be the harbinger of a new era in Roanoke.
Just like the Art Museum and the Market Building, the Restaurant depends on the people - the very same people who have not been consulted, and are generally left out of the process.
I said before - this is a critical election for the City of Roanoke, and regardless of political party, if you cannot see that, you should probably move to the County.
Actually - I would recommend it. Us mouthy minority folks who are ruining it for everyone, well - we are just getting warmed up.
12/20/07
Required Reading for today
If I had more than a 5 hour turn-around from yesterday to this morning, I might have a post ready for you - but for right now, you have some homework.
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/144097
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/letters/wb/144112
And have you heard about this? You probably have not, unless you are one of the inside crowd from a certain group. They have been circulating it among themselves, without allowing public comment on it. There was a signature in protest I saw in the early days of this, it has since been deleted. Always good when you remove dissent.
Anyway, I have work. Someone has to serve you people...
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/commentary/wb/144097
http://www.roanoke.com/editorials/letters/wb/144112
And have you heard about this? You probably have not, unless you are one of the inside crowd from a certain group. They have been circulating it among themselves, without allowing public comment on it. There was a signature in protest I saw in the early days of this, it has since been deleted. Always good when you remove dissent.
Anyway, I have work. Someone has to serve you people...
12/18/07
Valley Forward makes an assumption.
Find the op/ed piece here.
Or the original posting of the same thing (with additional writer information) here.
I have been biting my tongue on this one for 5 days now.
So I guess the easiest way to do this is to tit-4-tat it, but I do ask that you read the piece alongside the VF document, so you can follow along.
Fiction: Valley Forward wants to destroy and desecrate the Mountain.
Fact (as I see it): Valley Forward does not have the combined brainpower to understand exactly what are the ramifications of what they do want. Each time they are called on the carpet - the definition of what they are trying to do changes - like in this piece. Now it is a "Community Center." Well, I think the mountain has one currently. Two if you count the 2nd floor of the hot dog stand in the zoo. 3 if you consider the picnic pavilion. I could go on, as there are more - hidden meeting places. Clandestine and secluded, but I am sure none of the folks from Valley Forward know where they are.
Fiction: Valley Forward will personally benefit from the Rockledge Plan.
Fact (as I see it): Directly, no they will not profit. But in the long run, as the legal wrangling and day to day operations of the "thing" grow - they will absolutely profit. Certain members of Valley Forward will take their clients up there and woo them to land major contracts, all the while writing it off as a business expense.
And this $2.5 million over 20 years? Thats $125,000 a year. A nice sum, but when split among the Zoo, the Mountain, and the greenways - well - it's equal to a good corporate sponsorship or two for the zoo. And that's still without defining profit for the "thing." Will it be after overhead? Before? Will this be some City/Enron style accounting?
Fiction: Valley Forward doesn't understand the environmental impact.
Fact (as I heard it): That's not what your old Bio Professor told me. LEED certification is nice, but untested in the long run - and means about as much as those EnergyStar appliances that still run up your bill every year. Anyway - if you are going to build something, build it smart - forget the nonsense of LEED and all the rest. Oh - and those 2 parking lots you will be adding? Won't they be on uneven ground? How do you propose to remedy this problem?
Fiction: Citizens are against this plan.
Fact (as I see it): Citizens are against this plan. It's ok to have 2 differing viewpoints on something. The company hired to survey the citizens of Roanoke has a checkered history with polling, and the methodology of this particular poll has not been made public. Put a poll online, and no - a petition does not cut it. But thanks for the strange history lesson.
Fiction: The Rockledge plan is just a restaurant.
Well, it would have been if they did not feel the need to suck up to the Fishburn family, and the public at large. But in that case, they could have kept the Inn too. Meddling public ruins everything! Although I do like the "bike racks and water fountains would be added." Now, explain to me - as a businessman - I get the bike rack concept, but why would you give water away free when you are charging for it inside?
Fiction: A restaurant on Mill Mountain will fail.
Fact (as I see it): Possibly. There are no assurances that you, your franchisee, or anyone involved with the project can give that will say otherwise. What you have is an untested theory, that people will come more to the mountain if you put food on it. A safe idea would have been to test a few hot dog stands up there, or approach the Zoo about a partnership to test the waters. All it would take is one bad winter to sink a project like this. And again, I ask - who will plow the Mill Mountain Parkway? Who will maintain the access roads, and when will Sysco deliver? And how? An 18 wheeler on Mill Mountain 2-3 times a week? 52 weeks a year (barring weather issues)? Thats some wear and tear. Not to mention a supply-side logistics problem. Putting all this on your franchisee and expecting him to be your saving grace? Insane.
Fiction: As a public park, no development was ever intended on Mill Mountain.
And here we go... Fact (as I sarcastically see it): Fishburn himself allowed construction on Mill Mountain!! What's wrong with you people! You'll upset the ghost of Fishburn, a smarter man than you!
Fact (as I see it normally): Fishburn was a smart businessman. He offered the Roanoke Merchants Association (of which he was an influential member) the space to put one giant sign advertising Roanoke for the holidays, at which time they chose the Star. Mind you - that was only supposed to last a year. The Zoo was built to give a "children's area" to the Mountain, as it had always been a popular destination for families during nice weather. It's "fee" was nearly non-existent at the beginning, it was not until the Zoo became a full Non-profit in 1975 that a "structured fee" was enacted. But through both instances, Fishburn had a greater reason in mind. Something for the community. There once was a watchtower atop Mill Mountain. For many years, one could go climb to the top and look out over the Valley. For a time, you could even shine a high-powered spotlight on your neighbors and annoy them from afar. All for a nickel.
Problem was, this tower burned twice after lightning strikes. Generally unsafe at any wind-speed, and a steep hike. Putting a Star up there seemed the next best thing. Gave a lookout point, and soon followed with an actual overlook. The Zoo gave the City community a place to go experience things they might not at home. The Central Park Zoo started much the same way. A way to bring kids into contact with "simple" animals - Cows, goats, chickens, and the like. In your average city, the odds of actually touching one of these before the age of 18 is slim. Thats why all Zoo's have a small domestic animal area, it's part of the reason they exist.
So tell me now, was Fishburn concerned about making a buck while looking good before the future environmental crowd? I say no, he was genuinely interested in giving something to this community it did not have. A place to breathe, get out and stretch their legs. And be above it all. It was an escape from the valley floor, where trains belched smoke and soot - and factories added more of the same. The buildings he would have considered adding would be the bathrooms and such, and as for the old Rockledge Inn? It was a shell.. harmless and useless and utterly defunct. In 1964, when the Mill Mountain Playhouse emerged there - it was a near miracle that the building did not collapse around them. Did he allow the presence of the Rockledge? Sure - like you allow the presence of that decorative rock someone gave you when you moved in. It's there, and until you find a use for it - it's going to stay there.
So Valley Forward, I ask you. Am I not open minded enough to grasp your stunning plan? Do you sleep the sleep of angels at night knowing this is going to be the thing that either saves Roanoke from itself, or condemns it to Hades? Have you considered asking the public directly, yourselves, without fraud or misleading questions (as you have done once before) - or did you just assume that because I am opposed to YOUR concept (not the concept of food and some light service on Mill Mountain, just YOUR concept for it), I must be "one of them" who does not wish to see Roanoke progress.
If you know anything, Lugar & Co., if you have learned anything from the times you have been here to read my blog - you should know better than that. I just try and keep an eye out for everyone's interests.
And one final question, as a non-profit entity (MMCF) would you be seeking a reduction in the property taxes you would owe the city, as the Art Museum has done?
Open your minds on that one.
Or the original posting of the same thing (with additional writer information) here.
I have been biting my tongue on this one for 5 days now.
So I guess the easiest way to do this is to tit-4-tat it, but I do ask that you read the piece alongside the VF document, so you can follow along.
Fiction: Valley Forward wants to destroy and desecrate the Mountain.
Fact (as I see it): Valley Forward does not have the combined brainpower to understand exactly what are the ramifications of what they do want. Each time they are called on the carpet - the definition of what they are trying to do changes - like in this piece. Now it is a "Community Center." Well, I think the mountain has one currently. Two if you count the 2nd floor of the hot dog stand in the zoo. 3 if you consider the picnic pavilion. I could go on, as there are more - hidden meeting places. Clandestine and secluded, but I am sure none of the folks from Valley Forward know where they are.
Fiction: Valley Forward will personally benefit from the Rockledge Plan.
Fact (as I see it): Directly, no they will not profit. But in the long run, as the legal wrangling and day to day operations of the "thing" grow - they will absolutely profit. Certain members of Valley Forward will take their clients up there and woo them to land major contracts, all the while writing it off as a business expense.
And this $2.5 million over 20 years? Thats $125,000 a year. A nice sum, but when split among the Zoo, the Mountain, and the greenways - well - it's equal to a good corporate sponsorship or two for the zoo. And that's still without defining profit for the "thing." Will it be after overhead? Before? Will this be some City/Enron style accounting?
Fiction: Valley Forward doesn't understand the environmental impact.
Fact (as I heard it): That's not what your old Bio Professor told me. LEED certification is nice, but untested in the long run - and means about as much as those EnergyStar appliances that still run up your bill every year. Anyway - if you are going to build something, build it smart - forget the nonsense of LEED and all the rest. Oh - and those 2 parking lots you will be adding? Won't they be on uneven ground? How do you propose to remedy this problem?
Fiction: Citizens are against this plan.
Fact (as I see it): Citizens are against this plan. It's ok to have 2 differing viewpoints on something. The company hired to survey the citizens of Roanoke has a checkered history with polling, and the methodology of this particular poll has not been made public. Put a poll online, and no - a petition does not cut it. But thanks for the strange history lesson.
Fiction: The Rockledge plan is just a restaurant.
Well, it would have been if they did not feel the need to suck up to the Fishburn family, and the public at large. But in that case, they could have kept the Inn too. Meddling public ruins everything! Although I do like the "bike racks and water fountains would be added." Now, explain to me - as a businessman - I get the bike rack concept, but why would you give water away free when you are charging for it inside?
Fiction: A restaurant on Mill Mountain will fail.
Fact (as I see it): Possibly. There are no assurances that you, your franchisee, or anyone involved with the project can give that will say otherwise. What you have is an untested theory, that people will come more to the mountain if you put food on it. A safe idea would have been to test a few hot dog stands up there, or approach the Zoo about a partnership to test the waters. All it would take is one bad winter to sink a project like this. And again, I ask - who will plow the Mill Mountain Parkway? Who will maintain the access roads, and when will Sysco deliver? And how? An 18 wheeler on Mill Mountain 2-3 times a week? 52 weeks a year (barring weather issues)? Thats some wear and tear. Not to mention a supply-side logistics problem. Putting all this on your franchisee and expecting him to be your saving grace? Insane.
Fiction: As a public park, no development was ever intended on Mill Mountain.
And here we go... Fact (as I sarcastically see it): Fishburn himself allowed construction on Mill Mountain!! What's wrong with you people! You'll upset the ghost of Fishburn, a smarter man than you!
Fact (as I see it normally): Fishburn was a smart businessman. He offered the Roanoke Merchants Association (of which he was an influential member) the space to put one giant sign advertising Roanoke for the holidays, at which time they chose the Star. Mind you - that was only supposed to last a year. The Zoo was built to give a "children's area" to the Mountain, as it had always been a popular destination for families during nice weather. It's "fee" was nearly non-existent at the beginning, it was not until the Zoo became a full Non-profit in 1975 that a "structured fee" was enacted. But through both instances, Fishburn had a greater reason in mind. Something for the community. There once was a watchtower atop Mill Mountain. For many years, one could go climb to the top and look out over the Valley. For a time, you could even shine a high-powered spotlight on your neighbors and annoy them from afar. All for a nickel.
Problem was, this tower burned twice after lightning strikes. Generally unsafe at any wind-speed, and a steep hike. Putting a Star up there seemed the next best thing. Gave a lookout point, and soon followed with an actual overlook. The Zoo gave the City community a place to go experience things they might not at home. The Central Park Zoo started much the same way. A way to bring kids into contact with "simple" animals - Cows, goats, chickens, and the like. In your average city, the odds of actually touching one of these before the age of 18 is slim. Thats why all Zoo's have a small domestic animal area, it's part of the reason they exist.
So tell me now, was Fishburn concerned about making a buck while looking good before the future environmental crowd? I say no, he was genuinely interested in giving something to this community it did not have. A place to breathe, get out and stretch their legs. And be above it all. It was an escape from the valley floor, where trains belched smoke and soot - and factories added more of the same. The buildings he would have considered adding would be the bathrooms and such, and as for the old Rockledge Inn? It was a shell.. harmless and useless and utterly defunct. In 1964, when the Mill Mountain Playhouse emerged there - it was a near miracle that the building did not collapse around them. Did he allow the presence of the Rockledge? Sure - like you allow the presence of that decorative rock someone gave you when you moved in. It's there, and until you find a use for it - it's going to stay there.
So Valley Forward, I ask you. Am I not open minded enough to grasp your stunning plan? Do you sleep the sleep of angels at night knowing this is going to be the thing that either saves Roanoke from itself, or condemns it to Hades? Have you considered asking the public directly, yourselves, without fraud or misleading questions (as you have done once before) - or did you just assume that because I am opposed to YOUR concept (not the concept of food and some light service on Mill Mountain, just YOUR concept for it), I must be "one of them" who does not wish to see Roanoke progress.
If you know anything, Lugar & Co., if you have learned anything from the times you have been here to read my blog - you should know better than that. I just try and keep an eye out for everyone's interests.
And one final question, as a non-profit entity (MMCF) would you be seeking a reduction in the property taxes you would owe the city, as the Art Museum has done?
Open your minds on that one.
12/11/07
Delayed entry.
(Sorry about this, I could have swore I hit the publish button - but I found it languishing in my drafts. Ah well. Enjoy.)
Valley Forward does not realize it, but at the press conference last Friday for the "Inn/Restaurant on Mill Mountain", they defined their role in the future. First, the "press conference" was not your traditional press conference. There was no moment during, or after, when they took comments and questions from those in attendance. Well, not on the public scale. Any questions or comments were "off-podium" and decidedly away from the camera's lens. They were quickly surrounded by their well-wishers, and the media were kept at bay for a short time. Only when they spawned off into smaller groups did the news stations get a shot at interviewing Fralin, Lugar, and whoever else would stand still. I know I saw a couple of folks shoot straight for the door when the cameras went mobile.
So it was more of a press release, than an actual conference. But it was the meat of the matter that truly set them apart, and laid the path to the future of Valley Forward, and Roanoke.
First off, the new revamped "Restaurant on the Mountain" will boast a "destination restaurant", a cafe, and a public meeting room (affectionately called the Fishburn room, in an attempt to win the family's support). They will actively seek $1 million in public support funds to get the ball rolling on this, and when they have it - will turn around and go to the "5 or 6" banks they have lined up to give them loans for the rest of the money. That $1 million is also known as "community investment," or - in this case "a buy-in" program. Gas prices, higher food costs, and the like are all contributing to the drop in funding of worthwhile things like the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and actual useful and needed services. Those contributions normally come from average folk, poor and rich folk alike. So who will be in the best place to really donate to, and benefit from a restaurant on Mill Mountain?
Wait for it...
Ownership of the physical structure would be by the Mill Mountain Community Foundation. A new Foundation (for profit, or non- has not been specified) consisting of 9 open seats, which will be filled thusly: 1 member of the Fishburn Family (of which there are 4 left), 1 member of the City Council, 1 person from the MMZoo (unclear as to Zoo Board, or Zoo actual), 1 person from the Mill Mountain Committee, 1 person from unknown group, and 4 people selected "at large" by the City Council.
So what they are really saying is, a minimum of 5 people serving the interests of those who support the Restaurant in the first place. And considering the makeup of our current council, I can say with confidence - You would be facing a SoRo, OSW heavy Foundation. Thats a given of course. What really stuns me is the way they intend to operate.
All net profits will be disbursed to the Mill Mountain Zoo, and to improve the trails and greenways. And yet they still claim they will be cash-flow positive in the first year. Must be teaching Enron math at Radford. Let that be a warning to all you parents out there. But here's the "emotional hook." They are basically eluding that if this project fails (due to the public - always the public's fault), the Zoo will not be able to sustain itself. This "Community Restaurant/Cafe/Not An Inn" is the best hope the Mill Mountain Zoo has to survive.
Valley Forward, you're doing it wrong. Usually you show some sort of involvement in something before you go spouting about it's future. Get up there and get to know the folks at the Zoo before you make statements like that. They tend to have more of an impact that way.
The new thing - whatever it's going to be called - will not be visible from downtown. And will have no direct link from downtown. Other than perhaps an ad or two. But it's going to be (at the very least) a tax windfall for the city. I guess in meals tax, or property taxes... if they pay property taxes. If they declare non-profit, there goes that source. Aside from the fact that it is located atop a mountain, with one road access - how often does the city plow that road in the event of a snowfall? No matter what they may claim, it will still cost money to keep this thing open - money from the city, money from the community... Support from a community where you are really engendering none.
And how long before a quicker route is looked for? A back way to get up there. Perhaps something off Yellow Mountain Rd.?
No, something was wrong with this plan. It seemed very thin - rushed. The speeches were obviously very well rehearsed, but the subject was not. They even admitted time was an issue in pulling this together. I wonder if this is the same plan they submitted to the Council back in October, considering they should have had a better concept and presentation in the time allotted. Then again, they have not even bothered to release the actual proposal on their own website. However, you can go and see the original proposal for the Inn, and draw your own conclusions.
So this is it. Valley Forward's path to the future. Talk in a huddle, and expect everyone else to immediately grasp the concept. And pout a lot if you don't get your way. As evidenced by the "Public Park. Public Park. Public Park." statement by Lugar. Although I do give them some credit for trying again. And I still don't mind the idea of having some form of food up there. As long as I don't have to see the golden arches, and proper accommodations were made for the public AT LARGE to get there.
Ah well.. It's worth a shot, right? But maybe Valley Forward needs to take a page from NewVaConnects and engage the public before assaulting them with ideas. Just a thought.
Destination No-where.
Valley Forward does not realize it, but at the press conference last Friday for the "Inn/Restaurant on Mill Mountain", they defined their role in the future. First, the "press conference" was not your traditional press conference. There was no moment during, or after, when they took comments and questions from those in attendance. Well, not on the public scale. Any questions or comments were "off-podium" and decidedly away from the camera's lens. They were quickly surrounded by their well-wishers, and the media were kept at bay for a short time. Only when they spawned off into smaller groups did the news stations get a shot at interviewing Fralin, Lugar, and whoever else would stand still. I know I saw a couple of folks shoot straight for the door when the cameras went mobile.
So it was more of a press release, than an actual conference. But it was the meat of the matter that truly set them apart, and laid the path to the future of Valley Forward, and Roanoke.
First off, the new revamped "Restaurant on the Mountain" will boast a "destination restaurant", a cafe, and a public meeting room (affectionately called the Fishburn room, in an attempt to win the family's support). They will actively seek $1 million in public support funds to get the ball rolling on this, and when they have it - will turn around and go to the "5 or 6" banks they have lined up to give them loans for the rest of the money. That $1 million is also known as "community investment," or - in this case "a buy-in" program. Gas prices, higher food costs, and the like are all contributing to the drop in funding of worthwhile things like the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, and actual useful and needed services. Those contributions normally come from average folk, poor and rich folk alike. So who will be in the best place to really donate to, and benefit from a restaurant on Mill Mountain?
Wait for it...
Ownership of the physical structure would be by the Mill Mountain Community Foundation. A new Foundation (for profit, or non- has not been specified) consisting of 9 open seats, which will be filled thusly: 1 member of the Fishburn Family (of which there are 4 left), 1 member of the City Council, 1 person from the MMZoo (unclear as to Zoo Board, or Zoo actual), 1 person from the Mill Mountain Committee, 1 person from unknown group, and 4 people selected "at large" by the City Council.
So what they are really saying is, a minimum of 5 people serving the interests of those who support the Restaurant in the first place. And considering the makeup of our current council, I can say with confidence - You would be facing a SoRo, OSW heavy Foundation. Thats a given of course. What really stuns me is the way they intend to operate.
All net profits will be disbursed to the Mill Mountain Zoo, and to improve the trails and greenways. And yet they still claim they will be cash-flow positive in the first year. Must be teaching Enron math at Radford. Let that be a warning to all you parents out there. But here's the "emotional hook." They are basically eluding that if this project fails (due to the public - always the public's fault), the Zoo will not be able to sustain itself. This "Community Restaurant/Cafe/Not An Inn" is the best hope the Mill Mountain Zoo has to survive.
Valley Forward, you're doing it wrong. Usually you show some sort of involvement in something before you go spouting about it's future. Get up there and get to know the folks at the Zoo before you make statements like that. They tend to have more of an impact that way.
The new thing - whatever it's going to be called - will not be visible from downtown. And will have no direct link from downtown. Other than perhaps an ad or two. But it's going to be (at the very least) a tax windfall for the city. I guess in meals tax, or property taxes... if they pay property taxes. If they declare non-profit, there goes that source. Aside from the fact that it is located atop a mountain, with one road access - how often does the city plow that road in the event of a snowfall? No matter what they may claim, it will still cost money to keep this thing open - money from the city, money from the community... Support from a community where you are really engendering none.
And how long before a quicker route is looked for? A back way to get up there. Perhaps something off Yellow Mountain Rd.?
No, something was wrong with this plan. It seemed very thin - rushed. The speeches were obviously very well rehearsed, but the subject was not. They even admitted time was an issue in pulling this together. I wonder if this is the same plan they submitted to the Council back in October, considering they should have had a better concept and presentation in the time allotted. Then again, they have not even bothered to release the actual proposal on their own website. However, you can go and see the original proposal for the Inn, and draw your own conclusions.
So this is it. Valley Forward's path to the future. Talk in a huddle, and expect everyone else to immediately grasp the concept. And pout a lot if you don't get your way. As evidenced by the "Public Park. Public Park. Public Park." statement by Lugar. Although I do give them some credit for trying again. And I still don't mind the idea of having some form of food up there. As long as I don't have to see the golden arches, and proper accommodations were made for the public AT LARGE to get there.
Ah well.. It's worth a shot, right? But maybe Valley Forward needs to take a page from NewVaConnects and engage the public before assaulting them with ideas. Just a thought.
12/2/07
To Valley Forward,
PUBLIC PARK!
PUBLIC PARK!
PUBLIC PARK!
Sorry - could not resist. Be back later, with even more incendiary devices.
PUBLIC PARK!
PUBLIC PARK!
Sorry - could not resist. Be back later, with even more incendiary devices.
10/12/07
Woulda... Shoulda.. Coulda..
I was going to post something the other day about a poor dead horse that keeps being kicked. When the Times ran it's cover story on the close of the RFP (request for proposals) for Mill Mountain, I laughed heartily - and really wanted to sit down and type out a massive response, but today I am vindicated.
Read this, and laugh along with me.
Valley Forward, who ostensibly had no financial interest in ANYTHING being built on Mill Mountain, was key in the development of the SINGLE proposal that came in.
Lugar: "We were in contact with two major regional firms and a smaller, respected local firm, all of which had interest and had the wherewithal to consummate something on the mountain," Lugar said. But "because of the [political] climate, they lost interest."
It's not the political climate, you lazy minded yuppie. It's the socio-economic climate. Despite all your flawed and skewed surveys, you still failed to realize that your concept is not something the people want. Granted, you would probably have more support from the masses were you to suggest a Mexican Restaurant or a Red Lobster.
You folks over at Valley Forward need to exit your glad-handing circle for a little while and see how the rest of the world lives. Not all of us own moving companies, work as pharma-reps selling to politically connected doctors, or are able to have both a wife and child, and a mistress or two.
Best case scenario? Drop the Mill Mountain thing, and choose a battle that would actually accomplish something. Raise funds for testicular cancer or something, but stop trying to be civic leaders when you live in a world of your own. You do not speak for everyone, work for everyone, or know whats best for everyone. But such is the conceit of the idle class.
Saving the world is a tiring job, let someone else do it.
In short, regroup and come back with something useful. We don't mind you - we just don't like you.
Read this, and laugh along with me.
Valley Forward, who ostensibly had no financial interest in ANYTHING being built on Mill Mountain, was key in the development of the SINGLE proposal that came in.
Lugar: "We were in contact with two major regional firms and a smaller, respected local firm, all of which had interest and had the wherewithal to consummate something on the mountain," Lugar said. But "because of the [political] climate, they lost interest."
It's not the political climate, you lazy minded yuppie. It's the socio-economic climate. Despite all your flawed and skewed surveys, you still failed to realize that your concept is not something the people want. Granted, you would probably have more support from the masses were you to suggest a Mexican Restaurant or a Red Lobster.
You folks over at Valley Forward need to exit your glad-handing circle for a little while and see how the rest of the world lives. Not all of us own moving companies, work as pharma-reps selling to politically connected doctors, or are able to have both a wife and child, and a mistress or two.
Best case scenario? Drop the Mill Mountain thing, and choose a battle that would actually accomplish something. Raise funds for testicular cancer or something, but stop trying to be civic leaders when you live in a world of your own. You do not speak for everyone, work for everyone, or know whats best for everyone. But such is the conceit of the idle class.
Saving the world is a tiring job, let someone else do it.
In short, regroup and come back with something useful. We don't mind you - we just don't like you.
7/5/07
To wit's end and beyond!
After reading an op/ed piece by Mac Obenshain in today's Times (read it here), I am curious as to when Valley Forward will sponsor "Gallop 4 Literacy."
This letter takes spin far beyond the "O’Reilly Factor," far beyond the Hillary Clinton campaign.
This letter goes so far as to twist the words ofthe Oxford some Dictionary, J.B. Fishburn, and the commonly understood meanings behind words... and not just words.
Words strung together into a phrase! Which, for the benefit of the woefully under-educated, he dissects into it's raw parts - and explains in brutal detail what you fail to comprehend!
Lucky us!
J.B.F. said that Mill Mountain should be"... developed and forever preserved, improved and maintained for the use and pleasure of the people of the City of Roanoke, Virginia, and vicinity as a public park."
Now "developed," his dictionary states, means "to bring a more advanced, effective, or usable state" AND "to cause to grow and expand." But.. but... that's just one definition of it, among at least 7 main, and upwards of 20 sub- definitions all dependent upon it's context.
Oh wait - context. Hmm... context. What possible context could J.B.F. have had in mind when writing these words?
Well, not being as apparently historically accurate as this individual (who, by the way, still thinks Rockledge is up on Mill Mountain - and crumbling as we speak. "The former Rockledge Inn should not be discarded to the side like some broken-down old thing.") I happen to know that at some point in his life, J.B.F. either witnessed or heard about the debacle of Woodland Park - or possibly the abandonment of Mountain Park & Casino.
Not wanting this gift to befall the same fate - he wisely included a blurb about the expected use and future of Mill Mountain.
I forgive the absolute ignorance in regards to the Hotel Roanoke, the H&C and Dr. Pepper signs, and the Star. I am guessing he is on the young side of "twenty-something" and does not know about the lights, stars, and hotel's checkered past. Well, all except the Star - which was a commercial venture graciously maintained by the Chamber of Commerce for many a year.
But this individual, with his twisted dictionary, does not receive pleasure from Mill Mountain. So let's all change it so he does.
That is basically the entirety of his argument, minus the spin.
So all you people who enjoy the mountain, the zoo, the activities at the Welcome Center (yes, the building which rests on the site of the former Rockledge) - tough kitties! He knows more than you do! He can selectively use a dictionary! Possibly multiple!
And am I mistaken or did he attempt to invoke the "Scooby-Doo" rule by stating we will continue to "defy Fishburn's request instead of granting it." Does this mean the ghost of J.B.F. will begin appearing atop the Star, until the Valley Forward Mystery Machine comes to investigate - and build an Inn to quell the evilness?
Ahh... perhaps Valley Forward needs a Propaganda Minister to better control the message and it's disbursement.
Oh - and as a point of clarification: The definition of "forever preserved."
1,001 - thanks Mac!
This letter takes spin far beyond the "O’Reilly Factor," far beyond the Hillary Clinton campaign.
This letter goes so far as to twist the words of
Words strung together into a phrase! Which, for the benefit of the woefully under-educated, he dissects into it's raw parts - and explains in brutal detail what you fail to comprehend!
Lucky us!
J.B.F. said that Mill Mountain should be"... developed and forever preserved, improved and maintained for the use and pleasure of the people of the City of Roanoke, Virginia, and vicinity as a public park."
Now "developed," his dictionary states, means "to bring a more advanced, effective, or usable state" AND "to cause to grow and expand." But.. but... that's just one definition of it, among at least 7 main, and upwards of 20 sub- definitions all dependent upon it's context.
Oh wait - context. Hmm... context. What possible context could J.B.F. have had in mind when writing these words?
Well, not being as apparently historically accurate as this individual (who, by the way, still thinks Rockledge is up on Mill Mountain - and crumbling as we speak. "The former Rockledge Inn should not be discarded to the side like some broken-down old thing.") I happen to know that at some point in his life, J.B.F. either witnessed or heard about the debacle of Woodland Park - or possibly the abandonment of Mountain Park & Casino.
Not wanting this gift to befall the same fate - he wisely included a blurb about the expected use and future of Mill Mountain.
I forgive the absolute ignorance in regards to the Hotel Roanoke, the H&C and Dr. Pepper signs, and the Star. I am guessing he is on the young side of "twenty-something" and does not know about the lights, stars, and hotel's checkered past. Well, all except the Star - which was a commercial venture graciously maintained by the Chamber of Commerce for many a year.
But this individual, with his twisted dictionary, does not receive pleasure from Mill Mountain. So let's all change it so he does.
That is basically the entirety of his argument, minus the spin.
So all you people who enjoy the mountain, the zoo, the activities at the Welcome Center (yes, the building which rests on the site of the former Rockledge) - tough kitties! He knows more than you do! He can selectively use a dictionary! Possibly multiple!
And am I mistaken or did he attempt to invoke the "Scooby-Doo" rule by stating we will continue to "defy Fishburn's request instead of granting it." Does this mean the ghost of J.B.F. will begin appearing atop the Star, until the Valley Forward Mystery Machine comes to investigate - and build an Inn to quell the evilness?
Ahh... perhaps Valley Forward needs a Propaganda Minister to better control the message and it's disbursement.
Oh - and as a point of clarification: The definition of "forever preserved."
1,001 - thanks Mac!
3/25/07
What a long, strange week it's been.
I know you have been waiting, some with baited breath, for this post. Well - I hope your not too disappointed.
Let's begin with this item, from last Sunday - "Many wary of market changes"
Well, considering that none of Center in the Square's "leaked" changes have anything to do with reality - including the turning of the parking area for the market into a "European-style plaza." If the city council does not see the reason to close Market St. off to traffic on weekends who in their right mind would think that they would allow it to be closed permanently?
And did anyone consult with 202 Market - I mean, if you are going to put a giant stage next to them, I would think they should be asked - considering they too will have musical acts.
Not to mention the complete "bad-will" publicity that would be garnered by shoving multiple vendors off the market. My question is this - if it was a signature building 25 years ago when it opened as Center in the Square, whats wrong with it now?
And the idea of moving the vendors down the center of Market St. was a no-go two years ago, despite the "raves" from 2005.
Mayor McCheese, or Emperor Nelson of the Mayonnaise tribe spouted forth multiple times this week with bland platitudes of little meaning. "My desire would be that the farmers and florists on the market remain in the market area as they provide a certain ambience(sic) that makes the market area unique and attractive."
Well, yes - but what does it mean? It means the mayor does not want the farmers to leave the market area. Area does not equal Farmer's Market. This from the future George Hamilton (if you were at the St. Pat's parade - you'd get that).
Then we had another missive from Valley Forward, who actually had a good run of media attention this week. Pres. John Lugar was not exactly rational when questioned following a meeting of the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee on Thursday . "This wasn't unexpected, and it clearly shows the committee is dominated by one well-intentioned person with a very strong personality."
Oh, well bless his heart. At least he did not come right out and call the entire meeting a sham, the vote rigged by those who do not share his "Valley Forward" ideals, and the city of Roanoke a hell-hole. You know he wanted to. But no, he keeps touting that line about being "well-intentioned". If it will take a high-priced inn on Mill Mountain to attract (and retain) more folks like Mr. Lugar and Associated - oh well. Bless his heart, he's so well-intentioned.
Oh but wait - we were treated to a column in the Times by one Robert Fralin, vice-chairman of Valley Forward on Tuesday. Wait - I've read this before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is simply an old press-release with a new paragraph added. Nice of the Times to give them this much press though, they need it - as the other projects the claim to champion have little or no information available. I'm guessing by the time the summer is over, they are going to wish they never even brought it up. Oh, but do not forget - they have the Gallop for the Greenways which would have been a great way to show they care about Roanoke, had it not been overshadowed by the Inn debacle.
Again, I'm not hating the idea of something on Mill Mountain. A restaurant, a cafe - but not another version of the Hotel Roanoke. Rockledge closed as an Inn, what makes Valley Forward think that the New Rockledge would be any more sustainable?
Roanoke City made part of Fishburn Park an "off-leash" heaven for dogs, and from what I understand - the response has been tremendous. Unfortunately, the ForgottenDogs are not bright enough to understand the concept of "come" and "stay" are not likely candidates for such a facility, but I do wholeheartedly support such an idea.
Oh, and one last thing - I do have my own opinions about what to do with Mill Mountain, how to make Roanoke cool, what to do with the Market area, and so forth. And a lot of them have a base in the Roanoke we will be celebrating with the 125th Anniversary - you'd be surprised what the past can show us, to lead us into the future.
You will be hearing more about them in the future. Much more.
Let's begin with this item, from last Sunday - "Many wary of market changes"
Well, considering that none of Center in the Square's "leaked" changes have anything to do with reality - including the turning of the parking area for the market into a "European-style plaza." If the city council does not see the reason to close Market St. off to traffic on weekends who in their right mind would think that they would allow it to be closed permanently?
And did anyone consult with 202 Market - I mean, if you are going to put a giant stage next to them, I would think they should be asked - considering they too will have musical acts.
Not to mention the complete "bad-will" publicity that would be garnered by shoving multiple vendors off the market. My question is this - if it was a signature building 25 years ago when it opened as Center in the Square, whats wrong with it now?
And the idea of moving the vendors down the center of Market St. was a no-go two years ago, despite the "raves" from 2005.
Mayor McCheese, or Emperor Nelson of the Mayonnaise tribe spouted forth multiple times this week with bland platitudes of little meaning. "My desire would be that the farmers and florists on the market remain in the market area as they provide a certain ambience(sic) that makes the market area unique and attractive."
Well, yes - but what does it mean? It means the mayor does not want the farmers to leave the market area. Area does not equal Farmer's Market. This from the future George Hamilton (if you were at the St. Pat's parade - you'd get that).
Then we had another missive from Valley Forward, who actually had a good run of media attention this week. Pres. John Lugar was not exactly rational when questioned following a meeting of the Mill Mountain Advisory Committee on Thursday . "This wasn't unexpected, and it clearly shows the committee is dominated by one well-intentioned person with a very strong personality."
Oh, well bless his heart. At least he did not come right out and call the entire meeting a sham, the vote rigged by those who do not share his "Valley Forward" ideals, and the city of Roanoke a hell-hole. You know he wanted to. But no, he keeps touting that line about being "well-intentioned". If it will take a high-priced inn on Mill Mountain to attract (and retain) more folks like Mr. Lugar and Associated - oh well. Bless his heart, he's so well-intentioned.
Oh but wait - we were treated to a column in the Times by one Robert Fralin, vice-chairman of Valley Forward on Tuesday. Wait - I've read this before. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is simply an old press-release with a new paragraph added. Nice of the Times to give them this much press though, they need it - as the other projects the claim to champion have little or no information available. I'm guessing by the time the summer is over, they are going to wish they never even brought it up. Oh, but do not forget - they have the Gallop for the Greenways which would have been a great way to show they care about Roanoke, had it not been overshadowed by the Inn debacle.
Again, I'm not hating the idea of something on Mill Mountain. A restaurant, a cafe - but not another version of the Hotel Roanoke. Rockledge closed as an Inn, what makes Valley Forward think that the New Rockledge would be any more sustainable?
Roanoke City made part of Fishburn Park an "off-leash" heaven for dogs, and from what I understand - the response has been tremendous. Unfortunately, the ForgottenDogs are not bright enough to understand the concept of "come" and "stay" are not likely candidates for such a facility, but I do wholeheartedly support such an idea.
Oh, and one last thing - I do have my own opinions about what to do with Mill Mountain, how to make Roanoke cool, what to do with the Market area, and so forth. And a lot of them have a base in the Roanoke we will be celebrating with the 125th Anniversary - you'd be surprised what the past can show us, to lead us into the future.
You will be hearing more about them in the future. Much more.
2/21/07
City Council strikes again!
Even though they basically handed off the Valley Forward proposal to Darlene without officially supporting it - they still managed to come off looking like gold.
Comedy gold.
Comedy gold.
Vice Mayor David Trinkle noted that others have had similar ideas for Mill Mountain before.
"Your group appears to be the right group at the right time," he
said, adding that he still has come concerns about lighting on the site.
Hmmph. Lighting. Good concern.
Councilwoman Gwen Mason said her phone has rung all week with calls
from concerned citizens, whose message she summed up this way: "Touch a
blood root plant in Mill Mountain Garden at your peril." The powerful gardening lobby must be oiling up their bypass loppers.
Mason also latched onto former Councilman Rupert Cutler's proposal
to couple the inn with a conservation easement that would protect the
rest of the mountain from further development.
"I'm hot on the trail on that idea," she said.
Get it? Heh! Hot on the TRAIL! Conservation easement... heh.. TRAIL!!!
Of course, the leadership of For the Valle.. um.. Valley Forward fared no better. Chairman Lugar said this is a great way to "democratize" the mountain. Hey, thats a piece of truthiness you can't deny.
Although obviously Valley for th. Forward's friends have not advised them well enough - the estimates they are running public with would build a restaurant on Mill Mountain.
A really fancy one, but $12 million will truly not go far due to materials, site, access, and all those other fun reasons. Allow me to share a bit of news: The "range hood" for a commercial kitchen (which the Mill Mountain thing would have 2 of) runs anywhere from $3k to 8k a linear foot. That's one of the biggest expenses.
Ah - whatever. Darlene has it now, I'm sure it will be months before we hear of it again, if at all.
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